Subj:	#1(2) TRAVELLER digest 361
Date:	95-07-28 17:07:52 EDT
From:	traveller@mpgn.com
To:	traveller@mpgn.com

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Sender:	traveller@mpgn.com
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			    TRAVELLER Digest 361

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) My problem with Traveller	by Scott and Vivian Nolan <nolan@DGS.dgsys.com>
  2) Yaskoydray, Coyns, Chirpers and Droyne	by library@dss.gov.au (DSS Library)
  3) Re: Grandfather 	by "Brendan O'Donovan" <Brendan@odonovan.demon.co.uk>
  4) Re: TRAVELLER digest 360	by A.S.Lilly@bnr.co.uk (Andy Lilly)
  5) Re: My problem with Traveller	by merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
  6) Ship Design	by Christopher_Griffen@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
  7) 	by Christopher_Griffen@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
  8) USS "Kitty Hawk" - 100t TL 9/10 Scout/Probe	by pd82495@wapol.gov.au (Michael Bailey)
  9) RE: TRAVELLER digest 360 	by That Computer Guy <darkstar@chopin.udel.edu>
 10) 	by That Computer Guy <darkstar@chopin.udel.edu>
 11) WWW site status	by "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@smtpwpo.dayt.tasc.com>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 00:14:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Scott and Vivian Nolan <nolan@DGS.dgsys.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: My problem with Traveller
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.950728000416.29170K-100000@DGS>


This is my first and, in all probability, last message to this list.  I'm 
only still lurking here because I lost the FAQ and don't know how to get 
off.  The "signoff" thing doesn't seem to work.

OK.  First off, I LOVE TRAVELLER.  I always have.  I've played it since 
1979 and still have the little black box.  I never played MegaTraveller, 
but I have all the TNE stuff.  I really like TNE.  I especially like the 
campaign background and the interesting way that you can play at least 
three different campaigns (Regency, Wilds and RCES).

What I HATE is something everyone on this list apparently loves: Math.

FFS made me madder than hell.  I can't play the game adequately without 
starships, and I have no intention of tracking power allocations, screw 
thread sizes and TL-13 shoelace styles.

I'd like a GAME, not homework.  I know that I could just say "OK, you've 
got this starship, see?  And you're in space..."  But I'd like to be able 
to design ships without all the in-depth crap.  Something somewhere 
between FFS and Battletech would be nice.

So the guys at GDW know a lot about engineering.  Great.  I've read some 
amazing articles in Challenge.  That's where I'd like it to stay.

I like Traveller so much, especially the TNE universe, that I've been 
thinking about trying to run a HERO system game in the TNE universe.

But I shouldn't have to.   Those that want to do all the heavy 
calculations should be able to, but the game should also support those 
who just want to play a game.

And while I'm ranting...

I'd like it if there were a list where I could talk to lovers of the 
GAME, as opposed to the mechanics of the game.

Thanks for listening.  I feel better now.

Bye.

Scott

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 14:23:34 -0500
From: library@dss.gov.au (DSS Library)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Yaskoydray, Coyns, Chirpers and Droyne
Message-ID: <9507282125.AA06953@babylon5.dss.gov.au>

In Digest 360, Bri asked:
>Subject: Re: coyns
> I heard these mentioned(In a Dryone context) could someone provide me info?
>(who, lotta new stuff popping up these days for me)

[WARNING: THIS CONTAINS SPOILERS IF YOU ARE IGNORANT OF THE DROYNE!!]

Yaskoydray, Coyns, Chirpers and Droyne

It all started millenia ago (about 300,000 years before the Traveller
universe),
when one Droyne developed his psionic powers to such an extent that he could
prevent his body from aging. This Droyne decided to explore his universe,
conduct experiments on everything he could envision, and generally muck
around
having a Good Time.

Pretty soon, he discovered that he needed long-term helpers for his various
projects ("normal" Droyne simply died too quickly to be of any help). The
Droyne decided to have children - and they had grandchildren - and assigned
them various tasks - eg. re-invent the wheel, in ten different ways.

Some of The Kids are mentioned in CT: the giant machines of Vland and the
Fire
Pits of Darrian (among others) both date from this period. Other efforts
include
the uplifting of Terran canines to create the Vargr race, the creation of
ringworlds and a Kempler rosette or two, the dissemination of humaniti among
the
stars, and other such unimportant issues.

After many years (about 30,000), The Droyne - now known as "Yaskoydray",
which
translates to "Grandfather" - began having difficulties with his kids. Their
projects had expanded way beyond their original form, and were conflicting
(horror of horrors) with Grandfather's own projects. He decided that his
original idea to have kids was a mistake, and set about to eliminate them
all.

At first, The Kids though he was only kidding. Later, they fought desperately
to
stay alive. The Final War was fought at TL 25-30 (!!), with Grandfather
emerging
victorious. He killed all his children (apparently, he "kept careful count"),
then dissappeared into a pinched-off "pocket universe" along with the Droyne
homeworld ("Eskayloyt" [sp?]) and star system, plus 2 other star systems.

(If I post the original location of these systems, is this a "spoiler"? After
all, Adventure 12 has been out for many years.)

Devastation from the (original!) Final War includes the asteroid belts of the
Geonee systems (plus MANY other areas of Imperial Space), the ocean craters
on
Zhdant, the contra-terrene matter in the Shionthy Belt, and so on.

The poor old "normal" Droyne suffered badly from the War, losing the ability
to
"caste" - that is, the ability to put each Droyne into a category within
their
society: Leader, Worker, Drone, Technician, Warrior, and Sport [have I missed
any?]. Basically, the War blasted them back into the Stone Age as Chirpers
(uncasted Droyne).

Many years later, Grandfather emerged again from his hidey-hole and began
visiting his experiments in Charted Space (for example, Regina's missing Gas
Giant). He must have noticed and felt sorry for the Chirpers, and so gave
them
"coyns". These solid gold discs have various things stamped on them,
including
a stylised flame, ice, death [what DOES that look like to a Droyne?], each of
the six Major Races, and each of the six[?] castes. The coyns are used as
psionic focuses when the Droyne are assigning a "caste" to a new, immature
Droyne. Coyns are drawn until a caste coyn is picked - which becomes the
caste
of the new Droyne. The casting ceremony causes fundamental biological changes
to occur in the infant, so that Warriors are 6' tall and much stronger than
the 3' Drones; Leaders are much cleverer, and so on.

Hopefully, the Regency Sourcebook (which has become the Great White Hope of
long-term Traveller players) will give more details on the Droyne than were
presented in the original TNE sourcebook. Things which could be expanded
on are: ow to create a Droyne PC, how to use psionics in a game, how do you
curb a Psi-15 Droyne (with all the skills) who was converted from CT/MT...

Sources:
Adventure 4: Twilight's Peak
Adventure 12: Secret of the Ancients
Aliens Book 5: Droyne
(all copyright GDW)

Disclaimer:
The concepts and background history presented here are copyright by GDW, and
are used without permission.
This "potted history" should not be considered a challenge to the rights
that GDW has over the Imperial Space RPG background.

- Hyphen
  (David Jaques-Watson)



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 27 Jul 1995 11:51:23 GMT
From: "Brendan O'Donovan" <Brendan@odonovan.demon.co.uk>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Grandfather 
Message-ID: <52@odonovan.demon.co.uk>

In your message dated Wednesday 26, July 1995 you wrote :

> > If Grandfather only  visits us every once in a while he may not even know
> > about the Collapse yet.
> 
> No argument there.  And even if he knows about it, he probably doesn't
care.
> 
He'll have heard about it. DGP's 'Vilani & Vargr' describes an android left
by 
Grandfather to watch over the Vargr, Idhren-Gzal, who regularly reports to 
Grandfather. So the collapse, at least from the Vargr point of view would be 
known to him (if he pays any attention to Idhren-Gzal). Of course whether
he's 
bothered by it is anyone's guess.

-- 
Brendan


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 10:10:31 +0100
From: A.S.Lilly@bnr.co.uk (Andy Lilly)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 360
Message-ID: <199507280913.FAA13048@Mithril.MPGN.COM>

Jerry (That Computer Guy <darkstar@chopin.udel.edu>) asks:

>However, did I really need to have to buy Vampire Fleets for four-six
>pages worth of information on how to build robots?

Which was copied straight from Robots Book 8 and not clearly linked with the
cybernetics options given in FF&S? Surprise me. [OKAY, so I've only looked
through Vamp F in a store - pay out for that? In my non-Virus Imperium? Ha
ha] A quick look back (even to the CT/MT days) will show you how many 'new'
books are actually regurgitation of even older ones. They often didn't even
chew the stuff up thoroughly before spitting it back out...

>And finally, The Regency Sourcebook...
>...Maybe
>Seeker or Group One or FASA and god bless DGP (what ever happened to
>their vapor-game AI anyway?).  But now no one puts out anything for TNE
>and the absence is really felt.

I wonder why? What with blanket thousand-odd dollar payments required to get
official recognition, the blanket condition that anything you write may then
be scrapped at will by GDW if it doesn't fit in with their future plans...
There are few stores (certainly in the UK) now that will sell photocopied
booklets with cheap cardboard covers (except a few second hand stores, of
course). So how can anyone else expect to break into the market without
investing thousands in going straight for pretty colour covers, etc.?

>If the hardcore, die-hard, buy-it-anyway-because-it-says-Traveller-on-it
>fans are making this kind of fuss and griping this much over the game,
>then can you just imagine what the rest of the gaming world must be
>thinking?

The _really_ successful magazines, etc. are the ones into which people have
put their hearts and not worried quite so much about the glitz and glamour.
Even then, the readership dropped off sharply when people bought TNE and
thought "Yuck".

>Why should they want to buy this game?

They don't. That's pretty obvious.

Personally, I can understand a lot of the griping but (as has been discussed
in this forum before) the rules systems are there to be used - if you don't
like them, don't use them. The background's a little more limiting but you
can invent a new reason for the 'Fall' produced by the Virus, or place your
adventures in the Regency and not worry about it.

>Granted it's now Traveller:2000 8), but the character rules are
>more indepth (when was the last time you didn't have the option of
>changing your career?).

Not intending to criticise at all Jerry, but you see in CT or MT I would
always allow my characters to change careers at any point, especially if one
of the random rolls (e.g. survival) made it appropriate - nearly killed in
marines, retired to a bureaucracy desk job. Starburst for Extreme Heroism in
the Navy? Moves on to become a high ranking diplomat (if they had a career
for acting, perhaps one could move right up to being president - or maybe
that's the Rogue career I'm thinking of?) :-)

My point is you either have to be flexible and adapt when GDW's canon stuff
doesn't fit things you've already set up (e.g. if you've already developed
parts of the Regency, etc.) or you have to wait around for them to churn out
an updated copy of the Spinward Marches supplement (note subtle sarcasm in
voice).

Cmdr Lilly, PITS (Political Intelligence Team, Scout)
PITS Team motto: "We are never outgunned."
* Nothing I say or do in any way reflects the views of my very kind
  and generous employers who have no interest in outgunning anyone. *


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 08:24:25 -0600 (MDT)
From: merrick@Rt66.com (Merrick Burkhardt)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: My problem with Traveller
Message-ID: <9507281424.AA08986@Rt66.com>

Namaste,

I just had to respond to this.
 
> This is my first and, in all probability, last message to this list.  I'm 
> only still lurking here because I lost the FAQ and don't know how to get 
> off.  The "signoff" thing doesn't seem to work.
> 
> OK.  First off, I LOVE TRAVELLER.  I always have.  I've played it since 
> 
>  <<<snip>>>
>
> What I HATE is something everyone on this list apparently loves: Math.
> 
>  <<<snip>>>
>> 
> And while I'm ranting...
> 
> I'd like it if there were a list where I could talk to lovers of the 
> GAME, as opposed to the mechanics of the game.
> Bye.
> Scott
> 

We've heard this before from people---"I don't like all this technical stuff!
You guys don't like the game, just math!" etc, ad nasueum.  Why not *post*
something instead of lurking, then leaving in a huff because no one else
starts
the conversation *you* want to hear.  We're listening, _say something_.

Yeesh.  I could go on about mechanics being important in a science fiction
rpg,
but if you think it isn't, then post an adventure, or a character study for a
plug-in npc or something, *anything*.  A smallish group needs people to post
if
we're to have a range of topics covered.  Hell, even a huge USENET group can
get swamped by a single topic for a while, and that's with a high background
level of posting.

If you want to add something to the conversation, by all means, chime in.  If
you lurk, then leave in a huff, why would we miss you, or even care---you 
haven't added anything constructive.

There, now _I_ feel better.

-Merrick
g

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:04:25 -0700
From: Christopher_Griffen@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Ship Design
Message-ID: <0190adc0@MailXFER.DMCWAVE.COM>

     >>In my humble opinion, basic rules for building starships should have 
     been included in the T:TNE rulebook (as was the case in all previous 
     editions of Traveller).  These rules would have occupied less than 20 
     pages, approximately the space used by one of the sample adventures.<<
     
     I agree that it would have been nice had GDW included ship design 
     information in the basic rulebook.  I remember how disappointed I was 
     back in '92 (was it that long ago?) when I bought the book and found 
     nothing on ship design.
     
     I think, however, that the design rules as presented in FF&S and the 
     BL tech manual, are the best GDW has come up with to date.  I've 
     converted a few ships I made with High Guard over 10 years ago, and 
     while you can't exactly do a 1-to-1 conversion, you can produce a 
     pretty good facsimile.  While I wish ships could generate about twice 
     the G-hours they do, I like the fact that GDW is finally taking a more 
     realistic look at maneuver drive fuel consumption.
     
     Just my two cents.
     
     --Chris

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 09:47:11 -0700
From: Christopher_Griffen@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Message-ID: <01914c40@MailXFER.DMCWAVE.COM>

     Commenting on Jerry Alexandratos' post:
     
     >>Speaking of which (can you say pent-up hostility?) where are the 
     maps of Diaspora and player aid cards that were promised to be shipped
     separately from the Deluxe set.  Guess what?  Yep, neither my rulebook
     or FFS say Mk I Mod I. <<
     
     I can't excuse GDW on this one.  I bought the Deluxe set too, but at 
     least mine had the player-aid cards and map.  Unfortunately, the map 
     is outdated.  It's the old Diaspora map with starport As and Bs 
     everywhere.
     
     My books were also _not_ Mod I books.  GDW covers this by saying that 
     the upgrade booklet brings you up to speed.  Well, I don't like 
     thumbing through the upgrade booklet every time I need to look up a 
     rule.
     
     I almost think the Deluxe set was concocted for the purpose of getting 
     rid of their backstock of non-Mod I books.
     
     >>For the money I think [FF&S is] worth it.  Also, I'm trying to think 
     if anything like this really exists for any of the other space RPG's 
     that I play.  No, not really.<<
     
     FF&S is just about the best thing about TNE.  Sure, some of the design 
     sequences don't produce 100 percent accurate creations, but they leave 
     room for you to tinker while they've done the lion's share of the 
     research.  Great stuff!
     
     >>And finally, The Regency Sourcebook.  Probably most players gripe 
     with TNE.  Like where the hell is it?  Why wasn't it released two 
     years ago? I know that GDW wanted to develop the RCES stuff and then 
     move their way on over, but what about the rest of us who want to be 
     in a different part of the galaxy?  Four pages on the Regency isn't 
     really enough.<<
     
     Yeah, they really wanted to force that RCES stuff down our throats.  
     The extent of my involvement with that campaign is reading the novels, 
     which occur in the RCES.
     
     If you really want to run a Regency campaign, get the sector stats 
     from Genie's RPG forum.  Year 1201 Regency stats from LeRoy Guatney 
     are posted for the Spinward Marches, Deneb, the Trojan Reaches, Reft 
     Sector, Gushemege, Corridor and Vland sectors.
     
     I use 'em for my Regency campaign.  Pick up one of the old subsector 
     maker shareware packages off the net, and voila!  Instant Regency 
     guide.  Don't get me wrong, without the background material, it's not 
     as fun, but at least you have something to tie you over until Keepers 
     of the Flame comes out.
     
     I intend to vent some of my hostility to the RCES (and the 
     disproportionate amount of attention that campaign gets) by having my 
     players' mercenary platoon blow some RCES troops away when the Regency 
     meets them in 1206!
     
     >>This used to be the greatest thing about Traveller.  If GDW didn't 
     cover it, someone else did.  Maybe Seeker or Group One or FASA and god 
     bless DGP (what ever happened to their vapor-game AI anyway?).  But 
     now no one puts out anything for TNE and the absence is really felt.<<
     
     Yup.  It really is.  GDW needs to license someone else to put out 
     stuff for their products.  Most of those old products, especially 
     DGP's were really of great quality.
     
     >>So, without being cynical, let me just leave you all with this wish
     list.
     
     Regency Sourcebook
     Library Data
     Updated Atlas of the Universe
     Sourcebook on Pocket Empires
        (this would be really cool if they expanded their coverage on The
        Covenant of Sufren, Oasis, and HubWorlds, and also included a 
     section
        on some of the best gamer created PE's)<<
     
     Okay, and here's mine:
     
     Regency Sourcebook
     Aliens of the Marches:  Vargr and Aslan
     The Zhodani Core Expeditions
     Mercenary 1201
     Classic Era Traveller Sourcebook
     
     --Chris

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 29 Jul 1995 02:30:41 -1600
From: pd82495@wapol.gov.au (Michael Bailey)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: USS "Kitty Hawk" - 100t TL 9/10 Scout/Probe
Message-ID: <9507281827.AA12113@phq1002.wapol.gov.au>

General Data

Displacement:   100 tons                Hull Armour:    12
Length:         56 metres               Volume:         1400 m^3
Price:          MCr75.896               Target Size:    S
Configuration:  Open US                 Tech Level:     10
Mass:           1079.75 / 674.5

Engineering Data

Power Plant:            200 MW Fusion Power Plant (50MW/hit), 1 year duration
Jump Performance:       1 (140 m^3 fuel)
G-Rating:               1G (50 MW/G)
G-Turns:                60 (119 using jump fuel), 4.7 m^3 each
Maint:                  51

Electronics

Computer:               3 x TL-10 Model St (0.3 MW each)
Commo:                  1000 AU radio (unlim., 20.0MW0, 1000 AU maser
(unlim., 0.6MW)
Avionics:               none
Sensors:                Passive EMS array 120,000km (4 hexes, 0.25 MW), 
                        Active EMS 120,000km (4 hexes, 80.0 MW)
Controls:               Bridge with 5 x Workstations, 4 other workstations

Armament

none

Accomadations

Life Support:           Extended (0.28 MW), Spin hull for environmental
gravity
Crew:                   9 (2 x maneuver, 2 x electronics, 3 x engineering,
                           1 x command, 1 x mission specialist)
Crew Accomodations:     5 x small staterooms (0.0025 MW each)
Passenger Accom.:       none
Cargo:                  373.25 m^3, 1 large cargo hatch
Small Craft/Facilities: use cargo space
Air Locks:              2

Notes

No purification machinery.  Fuel on board sufficient for 2 x jump-1.

Internal Damage

1:              1-20 Elec
2-5:            1-10 Elec 11-20 Qtrs
6-9:            1-10 Qtrs 11-20 Hold
10-17:          1-20 Hold
18-19:          1-7 Eng 8-20 hold
20:             1-20 Eng

Surface Damage

1:              1-10 AEMS 11-20 Radio
2-3:            1-5 AEMS 6-20 Radio
4-7:            1-20 Radio
8-9,12-13:      1-20 PEMS
10-11:          1-17 Radio, 18 Air Lock
18-19:          1-6 Lge Cargo Hatch

Systems

AEMS    1H
PEMS    (2h)
SR      5 x (2h)
LS      (2h)
JD      1H
PP      4H
MD      1H
all others (1h)

Comment

These are specifications for the first ship in the series, USS 'Kitty Hawk',
later examples included on-board fuel purification and a remotely piloted
fuel scooping drone. 'Kitty Hawk' was involved in the first jumps by Terran
humans, following the discovery of the jump drive in -2431 (AD 2087).
Following the success of unmanned probes in microjump operations within the
Terran system, Kitty Hawk was built as Terra's first manned starship by the
United States.  Following a number of expeditions to establish a refuelling
dump at Point Alpha (empty space at 0307 Solomani Rim).  In -2424 (AD 2094),
'Kitty Hawk' and her sister ships 'Santa Maria' and 'Endeavour' jumped into
the Barnard system, and encountered a group of Vilani prospectors searching
for lanthanum ores.

Needless to say, the encounter caused massive reaction when word got back to
Terra, and led almost immediately to the First Interstellar War.  The Kitty
Hawk was hastily converted to fire missiles from her cargo bay, and was
dispatched to secure the Prometheus system in -2423.  'Kitty Hawk' was lost
with all hands in action against Vilani ships in the First Battle of Sirius
(-2418).

The 'Kitty Hawk' and her sisters were almost immediately made obselete when
the Terrans gained knowledge of gravitic technology from the Vilani.  Nine
examples were built, one survives as the centerpiece exhibit of the
Smithsonian Museum on Terra (the USS 'Republic' was prssed into service
following the Collapse, it took a number of years to bring the ship back
into commision, but 'Republic' served Terra faithfully during the Emergency).

The ship is a hybrid TL9/10 design, reflecting the Terran's ignorance of
gravitic technology prior to contact with the Vilani.  Environmental gravity
is provided by a spin hull orbiting the central cargo module.  
Michael Bailey (pd82495@wapol.gov.au)

"...the scum also rises..."
                          Hunter S. Thompson



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 15:04:45 -0400
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@chopin.udel.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: RE: TRAVELLER digest 360 
Message-ID: <199507281904.PAA08954@chopin.udel.edu>

In Reply to Your Message of Fri, 28 Jul 1995 05: 13:58 EDT
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 15:04:45 -0400
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@chopin.udel.edu>

: Jerry (That Computer Guy <darkstar@chopin.udel.edu>) asks:
: 
: >However, did I really need to have to buy Vampire Fleets for four-six
: >pages worth of information on how to build robots?
: 
: Which was copied straight from Robots Book 8 and not clearly linked with the
: cybernetics options given in FF&S? Surprise me. [OKAY, so I've only looked
: through Vamp F in a store - pay out for that? In my non-Virus Imperium? Ha
: ha] A quick look back (even to the CT/MT days) will show you how many 'new'
: books are actually regurgitation of even older ones. They often didn't even
: chew the stuff up thoroughly before spitting it back out...

Ah, but Robots and Secret of the Ancients and Kiunir have all been out
of print now for almost 10 years.  I never bought them when I was
younger because my friend had them.  But now that he's moved what do I
do for this information.  Sometimes, regurgitation can be a good thing.

: >And finally, The Regency Sourcebook...
: >...Maybe
: >Seeker or Group One or FASA and god bless DGP (what ever happened to
: >their vapor-game AI anyway?).  But now no one puts out anything for TNE
: >and the absence is really felt.
: 
: I wonder why? What with blanket thousand-odd dollar payments required to get
: official recognition, the blanket condition that anything you write may then
: be scrapped at will by GDW if it doesn't fit in with their future plans...
: There are few stores (certainly in the UK) now that will sell photocopied
: booklets with cheap cardboard covers (except a few second hand stores, of
: course). So how can anyone else expect to break into the market without
: investing thousands in going straight for pretty colour covers, etc.?

But it was my understanding that GDW tried not to invalidate these
things.  I thought that what they did was sell the rights to sectors
they were never going to use and allow the individual companies to
develop those areas of space.  Likewise, I thought that they worked
very closely with DGP to make sure that their (DGP's) products didn't
contradict what GDW wanted to do.

I'm just saying that there's a serious lack of material for the
Traveller of today as compared to the Traveller of yesteryear.

: >If the hardcore, die-hard, buy-it-anyway-because-it-says-Traveller-on-it
: >fans are making this kind of fuss and griping this much over the game,
: >then can you just imagine what the rest of the gaming world must be
: >thinking?
: 
: The _really_ successful magazines, etc. are the ones into which people have
: put their hearts and not worried quite so much about the glitz and glamour.
: Even then, the readership dropped off sharply when people bought TNE and
: thought "Yuck".
: 
: >Why should they want to buy this game?
: 
: They don't. That's pretty obvious.
: 
: Personally, I can understand a lot of the griping but (as has been discussed
: in this forum before) the rules systems are there to be used - if you don't
: like them, don't use them. The background's a little more limiting but you
: can invent a new reason for the 'Fall' produced by the Virus, or place your
: adventures in the Regency and not worry about it.

But maybe I don't want to have to fear that what I do will be
invalidated.  Or maybe I don't want to have to work at making things
work when they do get around to releasing it.  Or maybe I may be a new
player who hasn't the foggiest about how things should be in The
Regency and would really like the source material.

: >Granted it's now Traveller:2000 8), but the character rules are
: >more indepth (when was the last time you didn't have the option of
: >changing your career?).
: 
: Not intending to criticise at all Jerry, but you see in CT or MT I would
: always allow my characters to change careers at any point, especially if
one
: of the random rolls (e.g. survival) made it appropriate - nearly killed in
: marines, retired to a bureaucracy desk job. Starburst for Extreme Heroism
in
: the Navy? Moves on to become a high ranking diplomat (if they had a career
: for acting, perhaps one could move right up to being president - or maybe
: that's the Rogue career I'm thinking of?) :-)

But sometimes you play with people who don't think that makes sense and
take every letter of the rules to heart.  Luckily I don't play with
people like that anymore.  8)

: My point is you either have to be flexible and adapt when GDW's canon stuff
: doesn't fit things you've already set up (e.g. if you've already developed
: parts of the Regency, etc.) or you have to wait around for them to churn
out
: an updated copy of the Spinward Marches supplement (note subtle sarcasm in
: voice).

I have nothing against being flexible.  I just think that it's a little
rediculous for them to be taking so long to release some of this stuff.
Ask me if I would have prefered to have seen them put thier resources
in Smash and Grab or Personalities of the Reformation Coalition or in a
Regency Sourcebook.  I think that they should have scraped those two
books (not because they're bad, I happen to like them, but because they
were inappropriate for the time that they were released) and released
sourcebooks on fleshing out the greater parts of the galaxy (Regency,
Pocket Empires, The Wilds), and then gone on to create the other two
books.  Actually, they should've made the Personalities one after all
the previously aforementioned stuff and included personalities for all
aspects of the universe.

       --Jerry

8) Jerry Alexandratos                %  "Nothing inhabits my    (8 
8) darkstar@strauss.udel.edu         %   thoughts, and oblivion (8
8) darkstar@canary.pearson.udel.edu  %   drives my desires."    (8

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 15:17:06 -0400
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@chopin.udel.edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Message-ID: <199507281917.PAA09929@chopin.udel.edu>

In Reply to Your Message of Fri, 28 Jul 1995 12: 42:51 EDT
Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 15:17:05 -0400
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@chopin.udel.edu>

: Commenting on Jerry Alexandratos' post:
: 
: >>Speaking of which (can you say pent-up hostility?) where are the 
: maps of Diaspora and player aid cards that were promised to be shipped
: separately from the Deluxe set.  Guess what?  Yep, neither my rulebook
: or FFS say Mk I Mod I. <<

[stuff about Deluxe Set deleted]

: I almost think the Deluxe set was concocted for the purpose of getting 
: rid of their backstock of non-Mod I books.

Oops, nevermind then.  I thought the stuff was new and nifty.  Now I
don't feel so bad.

: >>For the money I think [FF&S is] worth it.  Also, I'm trying to think 
: if anything like this really exists for any of the other space RPG's 
: that I play.  No, not really.<<
: 
: FF&S is just about the best thing about TNE.  Sure, some of the design 
: sequences don't produce 100 percent accurate creations, but they leave 
: room for you to tinker while they've done the lion's share of the 
: research.  Great stuff!
: 
: >>And finally, The Regency Sourcebook.  Probably most players gripe 
: with TNE.  Like where the hell is it?  Why wasn't it released two 
: years ago? I know that GDW wanted to develop the RCES stuff and then 
: move their way on over, but what about the rest of us who want to be 
: in a different part of the galaxy?  Four pages on the Regency isn't 
: really enough.<<
: 
: Yeah, they really wanted to force that RCES stuff down our throats.  
: The extent of my involvement with that campaign is reading the novels, 
: which occur in the RCES.
: 
: If you really want to run a Regency campaign, get the sector stats 
: from Genie's RPG forum.  Year 1201 Regency stats from LeRoy Guatney 
: are posted for the Spinward Marches, Deneb, the Trojan Reaches, Reft 
: Sector, Gushemege, Corridor and Vland sectors.

I don't have Genie access.  8(  Anyway you could get the information
for me?

[stuff deleted]

: >>This used to be the greatest thing about Traveller.  If GDW didn't 
: cover it, someone else did.  Maybe Seeker or Group One or FASA and god 
: bless DGP (what ever happened to their vapor-game AI anyway?).  But 
: now no one puts out anything for TNE and the absence is really felt.<<
: 
: Yup.  It really is.  GDW needs to license someone else to put out 
: stuff for their products.  Most of those old products, especially 
: DGP's were really of great quality.

I guess the reason I'm really cheesed off at GDW is because I went to
my local hobby store yesterday dejected because I now knew I wouldn't
be seeing the Regency Sourcebook anytime soon and I was still wondering
when the second RCES novel would come out.  So there I am and what do I
see?  Not one, but two products for the Star Wars RPG (yes, I play that
one too, but I don't like it as much as Traveller).  A whole brand new
campaign boxed set and an updated edition of two old out-of-print
adventures.

So, I'm staring at this stuff and I'm thinking about the wealth of Star
Wars stuff I have.  I'm thinking about how their magazine comes out on
time while.  I'm thinking about how I could play in almost any era in
almost any part of the SW galaxy and I've got at least two sourcebooks
on the place.  I'm thinking about the buttload of cash I've dumped on
this game.  And I'm there wishing that I could feel the same way about
Traveller.  I'm wishing that Challenge 77 would show up.  I'm holding
my breath for the Regency Sourcebook (so my mind's one-tracked).  I'm
wondering why people are so put off by the game that even TTC is having
trouble getting lots of submissions from the fans.  I'm thinking of the
game I'd rather be spending my money on, except there's nothing for me
to buy!

: Regency Sourcebook
: Library Data
: Updated Atlas of the Universe
: Sourcebook on Pocket Empires
:    (this would be really cool if they expanded their coverage on The
:    Covenant of Sufren, Oasis, and HubWorlds, and also included a 
: section
:    on some of the best gamer created PE's)<<
: 
: Okay, and here's mine:
: 
: Regency Sourcebook
: Aliens of the Marches:  Vargr and Aslan
: The Zhodani Core Expeditions
: Mercenary 1201
: Classic Era Traveller Sourcebook

Nice list!  8)

       --Jerry

8) Jerry Alexandratos                %  "Nothing inhabits my    (8 
8) darkstar@strauss.udel.edu         %   thoughts, and oblivion (8
8) darkstar@canary.pearson.udel.edu  %   drives my desires."    (8

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 16:50:27 -0400
From: "Harold D. Hale" <hdhale@smtpwpo.dayt.tasc.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: WWW site status
Message-ID: <s0191569.052@smtpwpo.dayt.tasc.com>

   I saw something posted here a couple of weeks ago saying that
the site http://enterprise.shv.hb.se/~goeran/Traveller/ was going to be
down for a week or so.

   Anyone have a status update as to when it is going to be back up?


--Harold


------------------------------

End of TRAVELLER Digest 361
***************************
